Exh swartg

It is tone deaf for that Trans Identified Male politician years back that gay men are making a woman’s story about themselves 

I’m not a hypocrite. Unless someone says that since I’m hetereoflexible curious I can’t disagree with trans people being in my abbreviation, at which time I would say no, but I can see where people who disagree with trans people being in my abbreviation come from

I acknowledge that Trans people are the reason that the civil rights movement for LGBT people happened in the first place. Me along with gays should be thanking them.

But history erasure is just as bad as gay erasure. It’s just freaking LOL that I linked to a wiki I don’t even care enough to read.

It’s like I learned certain pro Trans revisionism to parrot, and not questioned that... because actually finding things out for myself would be transphobic.

After reading a bit, I apologize for doing this, but Marsha P Johnson was a gay transvestite drag queen. Not trans. She found it comical that she kept having to correct people about her actually being a boy, as she put it.

From my own wiki link I missed

Marsha P. Johnson (August 24, 1945 – July 6, 1992) was an American gay liberation[6][7] activist and self-identified drag queen.

Johnson variably identified herself as gay, as a transvestite, and as a queen (referring to drag queen). According to Susan Stryker, a professor of human gender and sexuality studies at the University of Arizona, Johnson's gender expression could perhaps most accurately be called gender non-conforming; Johnson never self-identified with the term transgender

So possibly Marsha could have been gender non conforming, if we analyze that through a modern day lens, but not really trans.

People called Marsha a she as that is her drag queen name. When we speak about Marsha we call her a she, when we talk about Malcolm Michaels Jr (her real name) we say he. As we do with drag queens. Like Ru Paul, “may the best woman win”. Those type of men aren’t trans (I think one or two have been trans now, but I’m not up to date), they’re drag queens that call each other girls and use “she/her”.

So to address this more, Marsha didn’t throw the first brick, by the time she got to the riot it was already in full swing:

Marsha Johnson denied she had started the uprising, stating in 1987 that she had arrived at around "2:00 [that morning]", and that "the riots had already started" when she arrived and that the Stonewall building "was on fire" after cops set it on fire.[11] The riots reportedly started at around 1:20 that morning after Stormé DeLarverie fought back against the police officer who attempted to arrest her that night.

Prior to Carter's book, it was claimed Johnson had "thrown a brick" at a police officer, an account that was never verified. Johnson also claimed herself that she was not at the Stonewall Inn when the rioting broke out but instead had heard about it and went to get Sylvia Rivera who was at a park uptown sleeping on a bench to tell her about it.

(btw, Stormé DeLarverie” was the actual riot starter. She was a butch lesbian.

Though I got to work on my own issues with Transgenderism.

I like fellow TRAs who do not immediately scream at me and tell me to go die in a hole, so I’m going to get my hopes up and try and actually talk to them here.

LGBdroptheT was NOT an anti-trans subreddit.

For pete’s sake, there were trans people who were part of the sub. Some of the most active participants on that subreddit were trans. Are they transphobic also?

The purpose of the sub, the real purpose, is the view that LGB issues are distinct from T issues, and being lumped together is detrimental to both groups, and they should be separated for said reasons.

The sub also was about going against a few of the more radical and crazy aspects of the trans portion of the LGBT, an issue which is widespread.

If you really went on the subreddit, you would have found some pretty clear arguments for why, many of which come from trans people themselves.

Really, the comments on anti LGBdroptheT subs illustrate part of why persons on that sub believe what they do.

The typical reaction from the larger LGBT when a person has a “wrong“ think (ESPECIALLY in regards to trans people) is to react to that with viciousness, savagery, and hatred. Where these TRAs do not talk, communicate, or don’t treat gender critical and drop the T’ers like a person; but dehumanize them, attack them, and harass them to force them to stop talking. We hate that.

It’s one of very few subreddits where people could have asked critical questions relating to the LGBT movement without being beaten with a rod in response.

Personally, I was directed there by somebody from there after I was called transphobic for being bisexual. That’s the kind of radical trans ideology people there are against

Allegedly TIM is a slur and means someone ‘hates’ trans people, but TERF is fine and dandy to say and dismiss points with! HYPOCRITES.  I could repost these comments on anti terf or anti gender critical subs. Pretty much every interaction with those sorts of people is full of irony.

But…. no it’s not. it erases their actual gender. TIM refers to this person a man after they’ve come out as a woman. it’s similar deadnaming. it’s cruel. transwoman is a better identifier.  my reply: Actual gender?

Though, genders describes a set of behaviors, sex describes a physical body part. They don't match up every time for a person in the common way. Throughout history different cultures have seen this and responded with different ways: acceptance, shaming and repression, tying them into the religious caste, other ways I'm positive I haven't heard of at this time because humans have made a TON of cultures over the years.

More and more people are starting to decide that the first response listed above is most ideal, because trans people aren't hurting anyone (anymore than your average sample of random people are hurting anyone) and policing a person’s identity and behavior when it isn't hurting anyone is both cruel and a total waste of effort and attention.

My issue though comes when they try to police my language. I don't give a darn if they want to say that they're women, but I will not always go along with that and lie to them if I feel the situation is warranted.

Devil’s advocate, some people say this: “Women is a gender term, not a definition of another person's genitals. I don't check the sexual organs of each person who introduces themselves to me as a female, so enacting terms such as  man and woman to define gender instead of sex makes virtual sense. You use language however you want, though what our language means to other people and how they will respond is certainly their business.

Try empathizing. Trans people, who have quite uniformly struggled to be accepted as their gender their whole life, will not like being described by their genitals that they have or the genitals that they had as a baby. 

It's a rejection that their internal lives (their mind,  soul, and however you want to see it) has any bearing on their identity. Gender is not sex. If anyone knows that they are a woman, always heard a female internal inkling, routinely fits the socially accepted behaviors of a woman, dresses like a woman and introduces themselves as a woman, I am not gonna say that I (a stranger) know better than them because I believe that I know what their genitals looked like when they were born. Even if she were a immediate family member, it feels like cockiness to me to say that you know someone else's life (inside and out) better than they do.

There's no law that stops people calling people what they want, every person is free to. However, just as numerous people will form negative opinions of a person who uses racial or homophobic slurs, some will negatively view those who misgender trans people on purpose. They are free to do just that too.

Counter to that: What I wrote above is like saying “try to emphasize with a schizophrenic person by telling them everything they hear and see is real and people are out to get them”.

Misgendering someone is illegal in the UK. People have been investigated and fined for it.

Have you heard of the term “cotton ceiling”  I looked it up and now I think I know what it means. It’s a real thing that sadly affects a huge amount of lesbians.

Women do not have penises.

“Oh but sadly science disagrees”.

Well ok, I'm overlooking some intersex deviations where that might happen since there are so few. The exception proves the rule and all.

”Ok then here are some links to places you can read up on trans people. If you want more I could probably find someone who compiled a better more detailed list than me. If you still that women don't have penises then, I don't think ill really be able to convince you.

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/840538_3

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/voices/stop-using-phony-science-to-justify-transphobia/

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-01237-z

https://brainworldmagazine.com/what-neuroscience-tells-us-about-transgender-people/

https://www.apa.org/about/policy/orientation-diversity

https://annals.org/aim/fullarticle/2292051/lesbian-gay-bisexual-transgender-health-disparities-executive-summary-policy-position

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan/“

My reply:

I'll just take them in order.

The entire article is behind a paywall, but is based on the summary, it's arguing that intersex people prove that gender identity is separate from sex. This study has a small sample size, and even if true, it does not provide any evidence of indicators.

Opinion piece with implicit bias. Not really sure how that got into Scientific American. The few studies it does link to are behind paywalls. Then it goes and dismantles its own case.

An article. The studies that it does link have small sample sizes or links to studies that don't actually do anything to further the story in the article.

No links to real research, but posits that Bronze-age shepherds who believed in sky spirits knew more about gender than modern day people.

A policy statement is not in and of itself proof, even from scientists. There are various sources cited, but no links to the studies themselves.

And yet another policy statement, but this one cites its sources and has them listed at the bottom. I'll admit I don't have time to go through all of them, but most of them seem to be relevant to LGB and not as much T+. If you feel like going through and singling some out, I'll peruse them.

Oh gods! Can this one please just be retired already? This is by far the most typical "evidence" TRAs present, and it's on par with the Wakefield vaxx-autism study. The sample size is so small as to be rendered meaningless, it does not control for socialization or neuroplasticity, and it even admits only post-mortem brains could be scanned. Not only that, even if the study's claims were true, it does not neccassarrily mean a person can be "born in the wrong body."

Eating their own, good. Thats what they get for contributing to the slippery slope.

Though as with the Transgender debate, can’t people just respect each other? Or is that too Gen X of me?

It would be nice, however there's the whole paradox of intolerance (or is that a paradox of tolerance?), So, f**k TERFs.

I do not imply, for example, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be unwise.

It’s so hilarious how people like TERFs single others out, mock and, bully them, and talk about them like degenerates, then turn around and weep about people being rude to them for it. Maybe terfs should kick rocks. But, no it’s not ok to intimidate and threaten people, even Terfs

‘Terfs are like Nazis’ Yeah, because hitler loved transgender people.That’s like saying al, Israelis are nazis due to actions by the IDF

Lesbians should not be harassed if they don’t want to sleep with someone who has a penis. Lesbian Erasure is evil and wrong

But ‘its irony to cry about “lesbian erasure” but being a fuckin’ TERF at the same time. Terf lesbians, are sure are focused on cocks.”

To Terf Lesbians, if you don’t want to’ f a dick, don’t. If you’re living in fear of persons you may be about to have sex with has a dick, ask. Holy darn, I’m a fuckin’ conflict resolution genius.”

But maybe such people aren’t lesbians but bi, but just have many lesbian friends. See  “cotton ceiling”

You’re not the problem then, have a look at where the problem is

Zealous TRA: “Oh look, Jason (me) is a terf adjacent who used a term made up by terfs to attack trans women. Nice job patting yourself on the back!”

My reply to said zealous TRA: “But oh look! Another homophobe that wants to erase lesbians :)”

I have no idea and not do I want to have an idea. Just like I wouldn’t want to be around a neo nazi lgbtq people who don’t want to be around others.

Some bis have seen a passable transwoman that seemed attractive, but when they find out they were male that sexual attraction goes away fully

Zealous TRA rhetoric “Astounding. They feel attraction and then their bigotry kicks in. They don’t even realize it. This is like a neo nazi seeing an attractive Jewish woman and then becoming disgusted and claiming that they aren’t attracted after finding that out! It’s funny really. Honestly re-examine your own biases. It’s funnily nuts how you don’t see what you’re doing. I pity you truly. So deluded”

My reply: Are you actually comparing a lesbian finding out that someone is biologically male, and then finding it a turn off to a neo-nazi? yikes

TRA: “Yes it’s quite funny how similar they are isn’t it?

“Ha you’re just proving my point even more. Always trying to hide your bigotry behind your sexuality is absurd. Just like Nazis whine that everyone who hates them is non-white. No one is being attacked for being a lesbian. There’s NO homophobia here. You really don’t have an argument or a logical ideology so you fall back to any nonsense you can.

My reply You compared a lesbian losing attraction to someone who is biologically male...to a neo nazi and said that they're similar. That is plain homophobia.

I’ve heard lesbians of color saying according to those zealous TRAs they are comparable to a neo nazi since they find someone biomale to be a turn off? yikes

TRA. “Go on trying to hide behind lesbianism like it means something. You should realize how it’s exactly the same just with different targets and a different ideology. You don’t thkugh and just default to “lesbian always right”. You have no actual response or argument. You just get mad and emotional.”

It’s quite pathetic how intellectually weak this is. Not one person believes you’re a lesbian of color. That b.s won’t work.

Except that Lesbian of Color is south asian and also a lesbian - they are not that rare lol. If you don't believe me that's cool but they do exist. 

The whole argument was comparing lesbians to neo nazis which isn't much of an argument either. I am not upset or emotional but okay.

“Yes lesbians do exist. But the lesbian above just is not one. True lesbians mostly support trans women. Like above comparing terfs to neo Nazis. Maybe if so called Lesbian terfs stopped trying to hide behind their rhetoric consistently they could see how like Nazis you are. The majority of lesbians loathe terf scum like you. Have you ever pondered about how terf ideology is not that dissimilar from nazism? Or homophobia? Or beliefs of Christian identitarians? No obviously not. They will just go “but I’m muh lesbian ya’ll can’t criticize me!!!!”

reply “I'm not a trans exclusionary or a radical feminist? I don't even consider myself a to be feminist to be quite honest”

Do anti terfs know what Self ID is? And how it can affect women in women spaces?

I'm going to say not, since anti terfs like the zealous TRA above decided to fully avoid the question.

TRA “How much respect do you terfs think you deserve coming around saying things like “suckling girldick”? I’m not disrespecting women, I’m dismissing a freaking dolt”.

Do you know the difference between woman and women? The latter is plural. I don't need your respect personally because I don't care and you're not pissing in my toilet. I was commenting on your respect for women in general when you said you were going to piss in the women's bathroom.

Try not to piss in the sink since you would probably have trouble telling it apart from a toilet.

Damn, fair point. I’d try to find your address so I could come piss in your toilet, instead, but I’m fairly sure you and the other TERFs just eliminate wherever you please out in the rotten bog where you build your huts.

If that were true then why would be so concerned about our bathrooms? You sure do have the common sense of a TRA. Try coming up with a logical insult.

 trannies are not degenerates